The Truth About Jonestown
What You Were Told About Jonestown
It was November 15, 1968. A fanatic religious leader in California led a multiracial community into the jungles of remote Guyana to establish a socialist utopia. The People’s Temple, his church, was in the heart of San Francisco and drew poor people, social activists, Blacks and Hispanics, young and old. The message was racial harmony and justice, and criticism of the hypocrisy of the world around his followers.
The Temple rose in a vacuum of leadership at the end of an era. The political confrontations of the 60s were almost over, and religious cults and “personal transformation” were on the rise. Those who had preached a similar message on the political soap box were gone, burnt out, discredited, or dead. The counter-culture had apparently degenerated into drugs and violence. Charlie Manson was the only visible image of the period. Suddenly, religion seemed to offer a last hope.
Even before they left for the Jonestown site, the People’s Temple members were subjects of local scandal in the news. Jim Jones claimed these expos´s were attacks on their newly-found religion, and used them as an excuse to move most of the members to Guyana. But disturbing reports continued to surround Jones, and soon came to the attention of congressional members like Leo Ryan. Stories of beatings, kidnapping, sexual abuse and mysterious deaths leaked out in the press. Ryan decided to go to Guyana and investigate the situation for himself. The nightmare began.
Isolated on the tiny airstrip at Port Kaituma, Ryan and several reporters in his group were murdered. Then came the almost unbelievable “White Night,” a mass suicide pact of the Jonestown camp. A community made up mostly of Blacks and women drank cyanide from paper cups of purple Kool-Aid, adults and children alike died and fell around the main pavilion. Jones himself was shot in the head, an apparent suicide. For days, the body count mounted, from 400 to nearly 1,000. The bodies were flown to the United States and later cremated or buried in mass graves.
Jonestown became a cultural cliché for mindless cults that drove members to commit suicide and served as a vivid warning against blind faith and charismatic leaders.
But there was more to Jonestown than was first reported. Something more evil than a cult or even a demented leader was being covered up and, when it was finally revealed, it would receive less publicity than the sterilized version of the truth most people were fed.
What REALLY Happened: The Truth Is In The Numbers
The first headlines the day of the massacre read: “Cult Dies in South American Jungle: 400 Die in Mass Suicide, 700 Flee into Jungle.” By all accounts in the press, as well as People’s Temple statements there were at least 1,100 people at Jonestown. There were 809 adult passports found there, and reports of 300 children (276 found among the dead, and 210 never identified). The headline figures from the first day add to the same number: 1,100.The original body count done by the Guyanese was 408, and this figure was initially agreed to by U.S. Army authorities on site. However, over the next few days, the total of reported dead began to rise quickly. The Army made a series of misleading and openly false statements about the discrepancy. The new total, which was the official final count, was given almost a week later by American authorities as 913. A total of 16 survivors were reported to have returned to the U.S.
Members of Jonestown were mostly black adults, the elderly and children who were apparently selected to reflect a cross section of the American public. 
At their first press conference, the Americans claimed that the Guyanese “could not count.” These local people had carried out the gruesome job of counting the bodies, and later assisted American troops in the process of poking holes in the flesh lest they explode from the gasses of decay. Then the Americans proposed another theory — they had missed seeing a pile of bodies at the back of the pavilion. The structure was the size of a small house, and they had been at the scene for days. Finally, we were given the official reason for the discrepancy — bodies had fallen on top of other bodies, adults covering children.It was a simple, if morbid, arithmetic that led to the first suspicions. The 408 bodies discovered at first count would have to be able to cover 505 bodies for a total of 913. In addition, those who first worked on the bodies would have been unlikely to miss bodies lying beneath each other since each body had to be punctured. Eighty-two of the bodies first found were those of children, reducing the number that could have been hidden below others. A search of nearly 150 photographs, aerial and close-up, fails to show even one body lying under another, much less 500.
If so, the bodies would indicate the cause of death. A new word was coined by the media, “suicide-murder.” But which was it? Autopsies and forensic science are a developing art. The detectives of death use a variety of scientific methods and clues to determine how people die, when they expire, and the specific cause of death. Dr. Mootoo, the top Guyanese pathologist, was at Jonestown within hours after the massacre. Refusing the assistance of U.S. pathologists, he accompanied the teams that counted the dead, examined the bodies, and worked to identify the deceased. While the American press screamed about the “Kool-Aid Suicides,” Dr. Mootoo was reaching a much different opinion.
A Cover-Up. But Of What?
There are other indications that the Guyanese government participated with American authorities in the extermination of the cult members and then covered-up the real story. One good example was Guyanese Police Chief Lloyd Barker, who interfered with investigations, helped “recover” 2.5 million for the Guyanese government, and was often the first to officially announce the cover stories relating to suicide, body counts and survivors. Among the first to the scene were the wife of Guyanese Prime Minister Forbes Burnham and his Deputy Prime Minister, Ptolemy Reid. They returned from the massacre site with nearly $1 million in cash, gold and jewelry taken from the buildings and from the dead. Inexplicably, one of Burnham’s political party secretaries had visited the site of the massacre only hours before it occurred. When Shirley Field Ridley, Guyanese Minister of Information, announced the change in the body count to the shocked Guyanese parliament, she refused to answer further questions. Other representatives began to point a finger of shame at Ridley and the Burnham government, and the local press dubbed the scandal “Templegate.” All accused them of taking a ghoulish payoff.
Perhaps more significantly, the Americans brought in 16 huge C-131 cargo planes, but claimed they could only carry 36 caskets in each one. These aircraft can carry tanks, trucks, troops and ammunition all in one load. At the scene, bodies were stripped of identification, including the medical wrist tags visible in many early photos. Dust-off operations during Vietnam clearly demonstrated that the military is capable of moving hundreds of bodies in a short period. Instead, they took nearly a week to bring back the Jonestown dead, bringing in the majority at the end of the period. The corpses, rotting in the heat, made autopsy impossible. At one point, the remains of 183 people arrived in 82 caskets. Although the Guyanese had identified 174 bodies at the site, only 17 (later 46) were tentatively identified at the massive military mortuary in Dover, Delaware.
[Above: Jones is handed a note by Ryan that was passed to him by members seeking to leave with the Congressman. This upsets Jones who then apparently gives orders for the murder to supress the truth of what was really going on in Jonestown.]
In order to understand the strange events surrounding Jonestown, we must begin with a history of the people involved. The official story of a religious fanatic and his idealist followers doesn’t make sense in light of the evidence of murders, armed killers and autopsy cover-ups. If it happened the way we were told, there should be no reason to try to hide the facts from the public, and full investigation into the deaths at Jonestown, and the murder of Leo Ryan would have been welcomed. What did happen is something else again. Why?
Jim Jones grew up in Lynn, in southern Indiana. His father was an active member of the local Ku Klux Klan that infest that area. His friends found him a little strange, and he was interested in preaching the Bible and religious rituals. Perhaps more important was his boyhood friendship with Dan Mitrione, confirmed by local residents. In the early 50s, Jones set out to be a religious minister, and was ordained at one point by a Christian denomination in Indianapolis. It was during this period that he met and married his lifelong mate, Marceline. He also had a small business selling monkeys, purchased from the research department at Indiana State University in Bloomington.
A Bible-thumper and faith healer, Jones put on revivalist tent shows in the area, and worked close to Richmond, Indiana. Mitrione, his friend, worked as chief of police there, and kept him from being arrested or run out of town. According to those close to him, he used wet chicken livers as evidence of “cancers” he was removing by “divine powers.” His landlady called him “a gangster who used a Bible instead of a gun.”
Dan Mitrione, Jones’ friend, moved on to the CIA-financed International Police Academy, where police were trained in counter-insurgency and torture techniques from around the world. Jones, a poor, itinerant preacher, suddenly had money in 1961 for a trip to “minister” in Brazil, and he took his family with him. His neighbors in Brazil distrusted him. Although he didn’t speak Portugese or have any visible job, he maintained a large apartment and lived well. He told them he worked with U.S. Navy Intelligence. His transportation and groceries were being provided by the U.S. Embassy as was the large house he lived in. His son, Stephan, commented that he made regular trips to Belo Horizonte, site of the CIA headquarters in Brazil. In reality, Jones was known to be studying the mind control techniques of Voodoo cults and religions such as Santa Ria, which controlled and manipulated their followers with drugs, exotic rituals, fake miracles, fear and magic. An American police advisor, working closely with the CIA at that point, Dan Mitrione was there as well. Mitrione had risen in the ranks quickly, and was busy training foreign police in torture and assassination methods. He was later kidnapped by Tupermaro guerillas in Uruguay, interrogated and murdered. Jones returned to the United States in 1963, with $10,000 in his pocket.
With his new wealth, Jones was able to travel to California and establish the first People’s Temple in Ukiah, California, in 1965. Guarded by dogs, electric fences and guard towers, he set up Happy Havens Rest Home. Despite a lack of trained personnel, or proper licensing, Jones drew in many people at the camp. He had elderly, prisoners, people from psychiatric institutions, and 150 foster children, often transferred to care at Happy Havens by court orders. He systematically assembled a large population of people with few attachments that would represent a cross-section of society and would be under his control. But for what?
After his arrival in Ukiah, his methods were visible to those who took the time to investigate. His armed guards wore black uniforms and leather jackboots. His approach was one of deception, and if that wore off, then manipulation and threats. Loyalty to his church included signing blank sheets of paper, later filled in with “confessions’ and used for blackmail purposes, or to extort funds. Yet the vast membership he was extorting often owned little, and he tried to milk them for everything, from personal funds to land deeds. Illegal activities were regularly reported during this period, but either not investigated or unresolved. He clearly had the cooperation of local police. Years later, evidence would come out of charges of sexual solicitation, mysteriously dropped.
Although the new Temple had no guards or fences to restrict members, few had other places to live, and many had given over all they owned to Jones. They felt trapped inside this community that preached love, but practiced hatred.
What Was Jonestown… Really?
According to one story, Jones was seeking a place on earth that would survive the effects of nuclear war, relying only on an article in Esquire magazine for his list. The real reason for his locations in Brazil, California, Guyana and elsewhere deserve more scrutiny. At one point Jones wanted to set up in Grenada, and he invited then-Prime Minister Sir Eric Gairy to visit the Temple in San Francisco. He invested $200,000 in the Grenada National Bank in 1977 to pave the way, and some $76,000 was still there after the massacre. His final choice, the Matthew’s Ridge section in Guyana is an interesting one. It was originally the site of a Union Carbide bauxite and manganese mine, and Jones used the dock they left behind. At an earlier point, it had been one of seven possible sites chosen for the relocation of the Jews after World War II.
Once chosen, the site was leased and worked on by a select crew of Temple members in preparation for the arrival of the body of the church. But if these were idealists seeking a better life, their arrival in “Utopia” was a strange welcome. Piled into busses in San Francisco, they had driven to Florida. From there, Pan American charter planes delivered them to Guyana. When they arrived at the airport, the Blacks were taken off the plane, bound and gagged. The deception had finally been stripped bare of all pretense. The Blacks were so isolated and controlled that neighbors as close as five miles from the site did not know that Blacks lived at Jonestown. The only public representatives seen in Guyana were white. Guyanese children were “bought” also.
According to survivors’ reports, they entered a virtual slave labor camp. Worked for 16 to 18 hours daily, they were forced to live in cramped quarters on minimum rations, usually rice, bread and sometimes rancid meat. Kept on a schedule of physical and mental exhaustion, they were also forced to stay awake at night and listen to lectures by Jones. Threats and abuse became more common. The camp medical staff under Dr. Lawrence Schacht was known to perform painful suturing without anaesthetic. They administered drugs, and kept daily medical records.
A Mind Control Experiment Gone Crazy
Jonestown was an experiment, part of a 30-year program called MK-ULTRA, the CIA and military intelligence code name for mind control. A close study of Senator Ervin’s 1974 report, Individual Rights and the Government’s Role in Behavior Modification, shows that these agencies had certain “target populations” in mind, for both individual and mass control. Blacks, women, prisoners, the elderly, the young, and inmates of psychiatric wards were selected as “potentially violent.” There were plans in California at the time for a Center for the Study and Reduction of Violence, expanding on the horrific work of Dr. José Delgado, Drs. Mark and Ervin, and Dr. Jolly West, experts in implantation, psychosurgery, and tranquilizers. The guinea pigs were to be drawn from the ranks of the “target populations,” and taken to an isolated military missile base in California. In that same period, Jones began to move his Temple members to Jonestown. They were the exact population selected for such tests. All of the population received daily medical exams and wore medical identification bracelets.
The meticulous daily notes and drug records kept by Larry Schacht, the camp doctor, disappeared, but evidence did not. Jeff Brillie, who helped with the “clean up” operation was asked to guard a metal case containing thousands of files. He was told to shoot anyone who tried to take them from him and that they contained “highly sensitive” information. He later turned the files over to CIA agents who denied that such records existed when questioned by a congressional investigation. The history of MK-ULTRA and its sister programs (MK-DELTA, ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, etc.) records a combination of drugs, drug mixtures, electroshock and torture as methods for control. The desired results ranged from temporary and permanent amnesia, uninhibited confessions, and creation of second personalities, to programmed assassins and preconditioned suicidal urges. One goal was the ability to control mass populations, especially for cheap labor. Dr. Delgado told Congress that he hoped for a future where a technology would control workers in the field and troops at war with electronic remote signals. He found it hard to understand why people would complain about electrodes implanted in their brains to make them “both happy and productive.”
The people of the People’s Temple were little more than experimental “rats,” being drugged and monitored by daily medical exams and miticulous records of their health and behavioral changes. Once the terrible experiment was discovered there was nothing else to do but exterminate them and crush any link to the CIA’s experimental mind control program.
On the scene at Jonestown, Guyanese troops discovered a large cache of drugs, enough to drug the entire population of Georgetown, Guyana (well over 200,000) for more than a year. According to survivors, these were being used regularly “to control” a population of only 1,100 people. One footlocker contained 11,000 doses of thorazine, a dangerous tranquilizer. Drugs used in the testing for MK-ULTRA were found in abundance, including sodium pentathol (a truth serum), chloral hydrate (a hypnotic), demerol, thalium (confuses thinking), and many others. Schacht had supplies of haliopareael and largatil as well, two other major tranquilizers. The actual description of life at Jonestown is that of a tightly run concentration camp, complete with medical and psychiatric experimentation. The stresses and isolation of the victims is typical of sophisticated brainwashing techniques. The drugs and special tortures add an additional experimental aspect to the horror. This more clearly explains the medical tags on the bodies, and why they had to be removed. It also suggests an additional motive for frustrating any chemical autopsies, since these drugs would have been found in the system of the dead.
The story of Jonestown is that of a gruesome experiment, not a religious utopian society. One Temple director, Joyce Shaw, described the Jonestown massacre as, “some kind of horrible government experiments, or some sort of sick racial thing, a plan like that of the Germans to exterminate Blacks.” If we refuse to look further into this nightmarish event, there will be more Jonestowns to come. They will move from Guyana to our own back yard.
The ultimate victims of mind control at Jonestown are the American people. If we fail to look beyond the constructed images given us by the television and the press, then our consciousness is manipulated, just as well as the Jonestown victims’ was. If the discrepancy between the truth of Jonestown and the official version can be so great, what other lies have we been told about other major events?
***UPDATE***
As one can read below, a comment posted by someone claiming to be the author of an article strangely reminicent of this one:
I suggest people go instead to the unattributed original article as I wrote it, with full footnoting, “The Black Hole of Guyana: The Untold Story of the Jonestown Massacre” at
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html . This article, plagiarized and distorted without permission has been copied on many websites. I am well aware of when Jonestown happened on November 18, 1978. I am also aware that Dr. Mootoo and the Guyanese grand jury ruled there was not a single suicide among the dead, nor any pathology of cyanide. This was mass murder, primarily of Blacks, women, elderly and children. It would not have been hard to stage a taped recording, even of a White Night suicide drill, at Jonestown for the cover story. The story of the bound and gagged Blacks came from the air traffic controller at the airport when they arrived on Pan Am at the Guyanese airport. I did not supply any of the pictures for this plagiarized version, but I have seen hundreds of aerial and closeup photos of the dead, and none show evidence of cyanide poisoning, while many show bullet holes, and drag marks from being killed in the jungle and dragged in. You seem to have gathered somehow that I am implying there were no Blacks at Jonestown, when the reality and the title of my article are consistent with the fact that over 85% of the residents were black. They were so fully isolated that the surrounding residents and people in Georgetown saw only white people from the Temple. You have not read all the survivor accounts if you do not know they were treated completely differently by race at the site. I went through every published book, over 3,000 newspaper clippings, and many personal interviews to collect the data used for the article. It is not a “conspiracy theory”, it is history - John Judge
I have never plagiarized anything - there is always a link back to the site from which I am reposting, as you can see at the top of this page, unless of course I wrote it. Though I can understand the commenter’s frustration, I find it unprofessional and rude that he would imply wrong doing on my part, after seeing from the top link that I clearly was not responsible. That said, I know neither the author of the version posted here, nor the commenter, but I would suggest following the above link to a much more scholarly article; it is heavily footnoted, as the comment reads, for all of you retards and dumbasses, who don’t understand anything. If John Judge had emailed me, or left his email in the comments box, I would have asked for permission to replace this article with the one on his site; since he did not do that, and in his comment implys concern over permissions, I am simply bringing this up here. If John Judge ever returns, he would do well to email me (hello.andre@yahoo.com), as just in the last hour, I have become somewhat of a fan, and am extremely interested in publishing some not-ripped off versions of his work.
-Ed. (andre)
Discuss it on the Outlaw Forums
January 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Um, it was 1978.
January 23rd, 2007 at 7:05 am
You’re selective Pictures are terrible. They would never hold up in court.
And nor would your assertion for hearsay over factual evidence. evidently, your evidence is lacking. making you’re claim a factoid. You cerntainly tried making a comparison. But your theory end up a fallacy by comparsion. Which means nothing more than a coincidence. While MK Ultra may have been a program conducted by the CIA, that is noreason to suggest with your lack of evidence, selective terrible pictures, weak premise, and failing agenda driven conclusion the two correspond.
I loved the part where you tried to paint jim jones as no murderer by explaining his background. reminds me of ted buddy And other unassumed serial killers before the real truth about them comes out.
You know what, It’s just easier to call you stupid.
January 23rd, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Hey, where’s the tinfoil hat comic?
Man, you people are so viciously intellectual - I can’t even compete.
Haha.
You people make me sick. You are not “skeptics”. You are coincidentalist dogmatists, born without spines.
There’s nothing really I can add - other than ask you why, if this is all just some monumental coincidence, why are the 5000 documents still classified by the CIA, these 30 years later?
January 24th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
It was 1978, NOT 68.
January 27th, 2007 at 8:06 am
lol@ spineless. Browbeating, tsk. tsk.
Why don’t you ask the CIA?
Seems to me any logical person would stop asking me why for answers you claim the CIA are concealing from you. You’re a CT, I’m sure you’ve heard of the freedom of information act.
Tinhat’s should be worn outside during electrical storms.
You’re right i’m not a skeptic, I’m a person of logic and reason
who perfers empirical facts over CT factoids.
January 27th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
HMMM!!! Maybe I would consider reading this drivel in its entirety if you knew how to spell.
THe government must have subjected you to some type of spelling experiment:
“being drugged and monitored by daily medical exams and miticulous records of their health and ”
You are a raving lunatic.
January 27th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Yeah, yeah - “It’s all a stupid conspiracy theory! Everything is made up! Nothing is real!”
FOIA doesn’t cover files sealed under national security. Shoulda googled it before you made yourself look stupid.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998/11/13/MN107219.DTL
But I don’t know - I heard the San Francisco Chronicle was just a bunch of tin hat conspiracy nutjobs - they’re probably making the whole thing up.
January 28th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Two quotes from this article:
“A community made up mostly of Blacks and women”
“When they arrived at the airport, the Blacks were taken off the plane, bound and gagged. The deception had finally been stripped bare of all pretense. The Blacks were so isolated and controlled that neighbors as close as five miles from the site did not know that Blacks lived at Jonestown.”
There are bodies of black people in nearly every photo taken in Jonestown that you provided, I might add. There are black people (along side white people) in just about any picture taken in Jonestown, period. There is a ton of source material out there, from letters to audio tapes, and nothing I’ve come across has ever suggested that black people in the community were treated differently than white people. According to records and survivor statements, African Americans held many leadership positions within the community, and in fact, 9% of the male survivors of Jonestown were part of the Jonestown basketball team, in Georgetown that day for a championship match. So much for the theory of seclusion. Unless of course we are going to discount the personal statements of survivors.
I love a good conspiracy theory as well as the next gal, but it has to at least make a modicum of sense! This is only buyable if you know next to nothing about Jonestown going in.
“The political confrontations of the 60’s were almost over…” LOL, yeah, because it was 1978! You lose a lot of credibility here, when it’s clear you’ve done so much research on the subject that you’re a decade off from when it actually happened…
And what of the tapes from Jonestown? What of the infamous death tape? Was that staged? There are unanswered questions surrounding Jonestown and the body count, surely, but I’m afraid there are too many inaccuracies and holes in this attempt for it to be credible.
January 31st, 2007 at 2:57 am
I suggest people go instead to the unattributed original article as I wrote it, with full footnoting, “The Black Hole of Guyana: The Untold Story of the Jonestown Massacre” at
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html . This article, plagiarized and distorted without permission has been copied on many websites. I am well aware of when Jonestown happened on November 18, 1978. I am also aware that Dr. Mootoo and the Guyanese grand jury ruled there was not a single suicide among the dead, nor any pathology of cyanide. This was mass murder, primarily of Blacks, women, elderly and children. It would not have been hard to stage a taped recording, even of a White Night suicide drill, at Jonestown for the cover story. The story of the bound and gagged Blacks came from the air traffic controller at the airport when they arrived on Pan Am at the Guyanese airport. I did not supply any of the pictures for this plagiarized version, but I have seen hundreds of aerial and closeup photos of the dead, and none show evidence of cyanide poisoning, while many show bullet holes, and drag marks from being killed in the jungle and dragged in. You seem to have gathered somehow that I am implying there were no Blacks at Jonestown, when the reality and the title of my article are consistent with the fact that over 85% of the residents were black. They were so fully isolated that the surrounding residents and people in Georgetown saw only white people from the Temple. You have not read all the survivor accounts if you do not know they were treated completely differently by race at the site. I went through every published book, over 3,000 newspaper clippings, and many personal interviews to collect the data used for the article. It is not a “conspiracy theory”, it is history - John Judge
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:52 am
why are the black deaths more important than the whites?
why are you trying to make this CT racial if white people died as well?
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:52 am
LOL@ should have googled the real information. Yeah like this kind of intel would be in the possesion of a retard. Don’t get me wrong, I love conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorist. Infact I think all CT’s should be writting screenplays about psychological thrillers in hollywood.
The problem with this story though is it lacks proof, is based on hearsay, and mostly rumored like the existence of jesus. too many holes in your creation. Also you are not qualified to answer nor can you professionally answer what cyanide poisoning effects look like. Nor are you CSI forensic
specialist.
February 2nd, 2007 at 7:56 am
This is becoming like the game CLUE.
Let me guess the CIA in Guyana with the gag order on the Guyanese? Why is this air traffic controller the only man to have seen them? lol
Why can’t you people ever make sense? lol
listen to Ben franklin, And Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. He was a wiser man than you or I. Also don’t believe everything you read. Especially on the internet.
And why is everything you stated labeled under conspiracy theory on wikipedia? Lol@wikipeida even being anyones source of infromation.
Mkultra was discontinued in 1973 jonestown mass suicide happended in 1978. You’re About 5 years too late. lol
feels like a Judge judy courtroom. WOW!
February 2nd, 2007 at 8:01 am
You know the CT’s over at loosechange.com make the same mistake you do, They try to make it too complicated. That is a tell like poker players
have tells, That you’re theorically bluffing.
LOL@ it’s history.
yeah Revisionist history.
February 2nd, 2007 at 8:05 am
Where is you’re proof it could have easily been taped recorded?
Where is you’re proof those black people were going to jonestown?
They arrived bond and gaged yet the Air traffic controllers at PM
didn’t notify the authorities? How do you know for sure 80% were
black when there is no proof only rumors and hearsay?
Lastly, Do these residents at Georgetown have names?
How many people at georgetown were there? and are they all on the record making the same statements you’re impling?
February 2nd, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Yeah, Tin hat, I want everyone to be able to make comments - even raving coincidence theorists such as yourself - but I deleted 5 of your spam comments and there are still five on here, several of them borderline spam. No one else acts like that, I think you need to grow up, but if you decide not to, and keep spamming, I will block you, simply because I do not have the time for dealing with trollish immature children who want to fill my screen with obscenities.
February 3rd, 2007 at 4:13 am
I didn’t spam. You’re reply wasn’t woking correctly.
It got all messed up. So I tired to post what I typed
the outcome was many disoriented posts.
I’m not a child, Mr. browbeater. I had something to say and I said it.
Wrong, You are the coincidence theorists not me.
I was being satrical.
February 3rd, 2007 at 6:27 pm
All it would have taken was one individual to flip over and dump the Flavor-Aid. Things would have been a lot different.
I always get a good laugh out Dr. Beter’s version.
“All it would have taken was one individual to flip over and dump
the Flavor-Aid. Things would have been a lot different.
I always get a good laugh out Dr. Beter’s version.
“According to Beter, the body identified as Jones was a double.
The real “cult leader” Jones headed down stream toward Georgetown.
Shortly after noon Guyana time his boat left the mouth of the Essequibo
River into the Atlantic Ocean. From there Jones followed a
complicated itinerary which was designed to prevent his being
followed; but in spite of that, my friends, he was followed.
From Guyana Jones headed due east for about 330 miles and then
turned south, landing near Ramere, French Guiana, about 5:30 A.M.
local time November 27. From there he traveled by land to the
capital, Cayenne, and took an airplane across the Atlantic Ocean
to Freetown, Sierra Leone, in West Africa. From Freetown he
headed north along the coast to Guinea-Bissau Airport, arriving
at approximately 7:00 P.M. local time November 28. There, less
than two hours later, he boarded a DC-3 and took off. His route
took him eastward to Tambacounda, Senegal; from there onward into
Mali with stops at Segou, Mopti, and Gao; then onward to Agadez,
Niger, and Largeau, Chad. From there his plane continued to
Atbara, Sudan, and then a short final hop to Port Sudan where he
arrived shortly after 4:00 o’clock this morning, November 30,
local time. When he arrived at Port Sudan, Jones found a
Turboprop Executive Transport waiting for him, owned and operated
by Israeli Intelligence. Within 20 minutes the plane took off
with Jones and headed up the middle of the Red Sea toward the
Gulf of Aqaba. At 6:30 A.M. local time this morning, November
30, Jones’ plane landed briefly at Elath, the back door to
Israel; then on to a private airport outside of Jerusalem,
arriving at 7:20 A.M. local time. From there he headed to a
nearby location for an intelligence debriefing.
He had fled to Israel to receive cobalt treatments for the cancer
which had infected his head, his left lung, his stomach and his
colon. Told that he would receive additional treatment elsewhere
, Jones boarded a small airplane, “shortly after 5:00 P.M.
Israeli time,” and headed for Turkey.
At about 35 miles east of the town of Jerablus on the
Euphrates River, the plane crossed briefly to the Syrian
side of the border. At that point the door of the plane was
thrown open and three men grabbed Jones. In his weak condition
and caught by surprise, he was thrown out of the plane with almost
no struggle.According to Beter, the body identified as Jones was a double. The real “cult leader” Jones headed down stream toward Georgetown. Shortly
after noon Guyana time his boat left the mouth of the Essequibo
River into the Atlantic Ocean. From there Jones followed a
complicated itinerary which was designed to prevent his being
followed; but in spite of that, my friends, he was followed.
From Guyana Jones headed due east for about 330 miles and then
turned south, landing near Ramere, French Guiana, about 5:30 A.M.
local time November 27. From there he traveled by land to the
capital, Cayenne, and took an airplane across the Atlantic Ocean
to Freetown, Sierra Leone, in West Africa. From Freetown he
headed north along the coast to Guinea-Bissau Airport, arriving
at approximately 7:00 P.M. local time November 28. There, less
than two hours later, he boarded a DC-3 and took off. His route
took him eastward to Tambacounda, Senegal; from there onward into
Mali with stops at Segou, Mopti, and Gao; then onward to Agadez,
Niger, and Largeau, Chad. From there his plane continued to
Atbara, Sudan, and then a short final hop to Port Sudan where he
arrived shortly after 4:00 o’clock this morning, November 30,
local time. When he arrived at Port Sudan, Jones found a
Turboprop Executive Transport waiting for him, owned and operated
by Israeli Intelligence. Within 20 minutes the plane took off
with Jones and headed up the middle of the Red Sea toward the
Gulf of Aqaba. At 6:30 A.M. local time this morning, November
30, Jones’ plane landed briefly at Elath, the back door to
Israel; then on to a private airport outside of Jerusalem,
arriving at 7:20 A.M. local time. From there he headed to a
nearby location for an intelligence debriefing.
fled to Israel to receive cobalt treatments for the cancer which had infected his head, his left lung, his stomach and his colon. Told that he would receive additional treatment elsewhere, Jones boarded a small airplane, “shortly after 5:00 P.M. Israeli time,” and headed for Turkey.
At about 35 miles east of the town of Jerablus on the Euphrates River, the plane crossed briefly to the Syrian side of the border. At that point the door of the plane was thrown open and three men grabbed Jones. In his weak condition and caught by surprise, he was thrown out of the plane with almost no struggle”
February 4th, 2007 at 4:29 am
Who the hell writes this stuff?
February 4th, 2007 at 6:04 am
^ very paranoid people. but I love the mentally ill. set back read laugh and enjoy.
Would someone please dig up jim jones, and tell these tinhats DNA matches. Though Even then it wouldn’t matter, Because they’d fall back on jim jones being CIA as a way to justify how jones faked his DNA.
I’m telling you CT’s are fun subjects.
February 4th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Dr. Beter was appointed to U.S. export/import Bank by JFK, is a doctor of jurisprudence, author of the book, ‘Conspiracy Against the Dollar’, Intelligence Specialist, practiced general law in Washington D.C., 1951-61, was member of U.S. Court of Military Appeals in 1952 and of Supreme Court in 1954. also … later serve the Warren Commission and helped cover up the assassination of JFK. ..
February 4th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
I may be out of my depth, but it seems to me that “tinfoil hat,” as you call him, has many valid points. You seem to take an ad hominum appoach to the arguement instead of anwering his questions. Also, why did you write that it was ‘68 if it was ‘78? Finally I would like to proudly say that I am among those “retards”, as you label us, who require extensive citation and evidence before they believe anything they read on the web. I hope there are alot of retards out there. Even though i do not, as of now believe, you vesion, Andre, it was fun to read and does at least raise some interesting questions.
February 5th, 2007 at 2:33 am
Out of his depth:
He didn’t bring up any points for me to respond to, as you well know. He shamefully asked a bunch of questions the answer to which are easily available in any book about Jonestown, or on the web. Mostly he just used the “ad hominem”approach, talking about tin hats and such. I didn’t write this article. Google any one of the “points” he brings up. He’s just asking questions to bring doubt to the minds of weak, unintelligent people, incapable of doing the most basic research, so people can say “see, he had good points, it’s all fake” - people who cannot read multiple paragraphs at once.
You obviously did not read the whole article, or you would have seen the update where I link to the article that this article was apparently plagerized from, where there is an entire massive reference list. If you are indeed a retard, this would be why. One more time, here’s the link:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html
February 5th, 2007 at 3:05 am
Hey tin hat -
You are a coincidence theorist - this means you believe history and events are comprised of a vast series of coincidences. For instance, with Jonestown here, you would have us believe that -
The CIA’s (declassified) MK Ultra research having taken place during the same time period as these events,
Jim Jones’ childhood friend having been a CIA agent,
Jim Jones having spent a significant amount of time in the mind control capital of the world
The CIA refusing to declassify 3000 document’s relating to the People’s Temple http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998/11/13/MN107219.DTL
- And the massive list of abnormalities listed in this article, are all part of some vast coincidence. You are a coincidence theorist. You of course label me a conspiracy theorist, which is a trigger-word, but I find that title much more respectable, as it has intellectual merit, unlike coincidentalism, which is a kind of psychosis.
But hey-
We have a lot of stuff you seem like you would like to ridicule, in this pathetic way of yours, posted on this site, but you seem really concerned about this article - maybe because it’s getting so many hits?
Have you ever seen any of these stories, old buddy?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4655196.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Operations_Roadmap
http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_510.shtml
http://freegovinfo.info/node/841
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/25/AR2005122500659.html
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB177/index.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2006/171006enemypropagandists.htm
I just thought maybe you’d be interested in that stuff.
February 7th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
let me start by saying that the chances of anyone here being truly right as we debate the fading threads of hearsay are small to say the least. however it should be our goal to uncover as close to the truth as possible. not in an attempt to fix what happened but to see how easily something like this could have happened, to see if out trust is justified. we all want to believe that we are being ‘done right’ by the ‘man behind the curtain’ but this is not true. the man behind the curtain is acting on what HE THINKS IS RIGHT and what we want is a distant second if considered at all. to believe that your interests are being given equal consideration is the equivalent of ‘head in the sand behavior’.
i believe that until we can give all opinions equal consideration without interference of our ego our dialogue begins and ends flawed. from what we can see in the one small thread is much easier to give over to emotion and take someone’s opinion as an attack instead of someone in the same class raising their hand to ask a question.
is this article written poorly…maybe. but do you think it was written with malice to attack you? do you think the error of a date was made to hurt your feelings?
hey tinhat, i appreciate that it is much easier to ridicule someone else’s attempt to put the record straight and it must feel really good to do it with emotion instead of reason but do you really think you are 100%? do you think that acting this way sheds any light or does it draw lines between you and the society around you? are you trying to isolate yourself as having the only true opinion or do you really have something to say that if said constructively may actually generate progress? if so then you hang your value on hate and ridicule.
maybe you should just set back and accept the pabulum of people like rupert murdoch. take what is fed to you by the media instead of look out your own window. if things are so great why are you so eager to hurt someone who is trying to do the right thing?
February 12th, 2007 at 6:31 am
You are a coincidence theorist - this means you believe history and events are comprised of a vast series of coincidences. For instance, with Jonestown here, you would have us believe that -The CIA’s (declassified) MK Ultra research having taken place during the same time period as these events, Jim Jones’ childhood friend having been a CIA agent,
Jim Jones having spent a significant amount of time in the mind control capital of the world.
Frist off, This is your theory. I don’t make theories based on CIA friends.
What is the mind control capital of the world, You’re neighborhood?
History is history. The dates on MK ULTRA don’t match as I point out
the time line. You however are suggesting on assuption, an old CIA buddy, some how Links jones to whatever the hell it is you’re trying to link him too.
And the massive list of abnormalities listed in this article, are all part of some vast coincidence. You are a coincidence theorist. You of course label me a conspiracy theorist, which is a trigger-word, but I find that title much more respectable, as it has intellectual merit, unlike coincidentalism, which is a kind of psychosis.
Yeah I have a psychosis, yet you’re the one thinking you can prove something based on Alex jones websites. OK! Nice brow-beating, something wiki-intellectuals love doing. Get a education. OLD BUDDY? I just met you. See how deranged your brain is, Now you think we’ve been
long time friends.
This is america, people gonna say what they wanna say regardless if it’s true or not. I however, am not one of those people.
Logic and reason = something you lack.
And honestly you have to stop when Prison planet is your source.
Coindince theory after coindence theory after lie = you.
I also love you’re Intergation fallacy.
i’m not on trail. If anyone is YOU ARE.
You’re a complete bonehead.
February 12th, 2007 at 7:12 am
andre 3000 over here, Doesn’t even like me interjecting reason.
Infact he thinks I’m hurting his agenda and should leave.
rudolph the red…
You’re not quilified man. Nothing against you, your simplely just not quilified. I’m not even from America. i’m not ridiculing anyone. I’m
making you think for yourselves. To tell me to follow the media is IRONY
because your following infromation which is Subjective as well. And I don’t
even watch the media.
This story hasn’t been on the news lately, Since about I don’t know
since it happended. Which was when again?
I am using reasoning. You’re using emotion.
Do you speak in IRONY?
Everytime I look out my window, I do see none of the bullshit
you people are talking about. Only time it appears is online.
Noone is out to get me.
You can’t even call what you suggest evidence nor the right thing.
The right thing would be utilizing the freedom of infromation act
and paying for a team of Professional lawyers and quilified team
of people.
Do that, And then I’ll liberally say, You’re doing the right thing.
little Due process, thanks!
or stay a CT. whatever floats your boat.
February 12th, 2007 at 10:16 am
wow, that made no sense. thanks for playing though.
you do read these entries before you send another self-serving response right?
what is ‘quilified’ anyway? some foreign word that means ‘whatever i say is right because america bashing is in right now’
way to go champ! you da man!
February 16th, 2007 at 7:19 am
When someone says YOU DA MAN. They aren’t quilified. of course sense makes no sense to you. That’s the whole point.
Please save you’re browbeating.
March 4th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
I just discovered this article, and it contains some very interesting information, also of which I was aware of already. I have been following the Jonestown debate for quite a while now, and it is clear that the truth is being hidden.
Thousands of documents are not going to be kept secret unless there is something to hide.
April 6th, 2007 at 11:28 am
I found this article to be very interesting and well written. I was a child when I first heard of Jonestown, trying to gather peices of adult information in hushed tones. The story has always fasinated me. I like your theroy. Some of it makes more sense the the supposed truth. Where can I find some of these photos you spoke of? i have never seen supporting documentation on the shootings.
April 11th, 2007 at 2:12 am
Could someone please tell me where are the testimonials of t he survivors who actually hid out in the jungle? Were they rescued or did they come out when they thought it was safe? I saw a few of these men on the PBS special that was aired in April,2007. These guys did not explain about how they survived, and there is no website with their story!! How Strange!!
May 12th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
its funny how people can take the word of the press, the television and the government as the gospel, but someone talks about a different version, and all they can say is “it lacks evidence”, well did you investigate the original ‘evidence’ that was released to the public?? did you personally search Jonestown and come to your own conclusions or did you just take what the newspaper said as fact??
Keep doin what youre doin Andre, question, research, and talk about your findings..
independent research is the only way to get PERSPECTIVE when it comes to news..
no one wants perspective, they want a clean story that explains everything so they can move on.. when what we need to do is stop and look around us…
-loyal reader
Laree
October 8th, 2007 at 5:05 am
i’m researching this Jonestown massacre at school….i knew nothing about it apart from the piss take in the simpsons.
it is well written and there is a valid theory, but this couldnt hold up in court…your arguing with the CIAs evidence!
officials, politicial heads, theyre all liars and the only thing we can do is try and work out the truth with the ‘evidence’ they give to us
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Let me tell you something. Why don’t you just believe that this could be the work of a very sick bastard. I know what it is like to live in a cult. (When I was a child) These leaders are educated people. And they Know how to mess with people’s minds. The leaders make sure they are like a parent to you. So you give them your unconditinal love. So they can bend you anyway they like. I’m sure for most people he was the last hope in there lives. And people do weard things when they thinks it is there last resort. Don’t belittle jim jones’s part in all of this. History and the present has thought us that you can not prevent these people from acting out on there version of the ideal world. They make up this illusion that the world wil be perfect one day. But that wil never happen. It has never been perfect. People are murderd evryday in the name of making this world a better place. By regular people and by people with power. These people are in charge of the world. Worldleaders! And something about you rstory you don’t have any evidice to back up you story. And sadely if you accuse the cia or people like that. Don’t bother. If it was thru what you write. They will make sure that people will never find out. You will never get the evidence. These people operate proffesionaly. Just one advice just focus on you own life. Because nobody will do it for you.
It may sound cold to say these things happen. But they do. History repeates itself over and over again. And it will untill the world is perfect. So never. It’s al about choices these people made a choise to bring themselfs and theyre childern into the sick world of jim jonhsen. And they paid for it with a horrible death. Instead of driving yourself crazy about rasicm back then. Try to focus on rasicm in the present. I have been to America and i was chocked that there was so many rasiscm. People say slavery is over and outside amerika you are teached that the slavery is over. But i have seen things on tv en when i was there. That chocked me. Focus on the here and know. Sorry i have drifted a little bit away from the subject that you where talking about. My opoint i geuss is that if what your telling is true don’t bet on it that you will ever be aible to prove it.
ps: sorry if my grammatics are not good i’m not englisch.
December 6th, 2007 at 11:23 am
I thought it was quite an interesting article, and while i would’nt accept 100% of the points put forth, i would certainly agree that there is a rather obvious cover up of sorts. Especially when you look at the body count ‘errors’. I studied this is uni not too long ago, and either you have to say it really was one huge collection of convenient abnormalities, or someone in authority has interfered in some way.
Heck there’s so many conspiracy theories flying around these days one of them has to be true, (reminded of the infinite number of monkeys at a typewriter theorem that would eventually type out a particular chosen text.), never the less i think Andre has done a very good job with this article and explained his points clearly, and even though there’s a couple errors regarding dates, it does’nt mean he’s part of the ‘there but for the grace of God go i’ society, i think it has a lot of credibility.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:42 pm
(Attacks on me as a person, race (Caucasian), religion (Buddhist), nationality (Swedish), opinion and thoughts (see below) are accepted, but do not comment on my spelling or grammar. It is not my language, you be happy I use it anyway, or you would be crying trying to understand mine…)
1. My own thoughts … since everyone are anonymous here by default, the “CT” could as well be sent out be someone’s civil defence office to direct the commons thoughts in any chosen fashion.
2. I don’t get why so many are attacking the full _retold_ story from finding a discrepancy in the details. There is no story available that clears all the questions, so then we attack all stories as falsehood and in the end, Jonestown never ever happened …
3. It is scary that the fact (well, is it a fact? - I did not check any sources here) that an agency as CIA ever HAD projects like those mentioned above is not the cause of anger, rather the error of the number 7 in 78 being replaced with a 6. Don’t you agree?
4. Keep the wheels spinning, we are getting our own little US of Europe over here, and the distance to the corridors of power is increasing, and with it the sense of responsibility and fair judgment of the people in those corridors. The people are the power, the politicians are the marionettes, make them dance to our choreography. Or that’s the theory of democracy anyway…
February 6th, 2008 at 1:35 am
Yeah, and George Bush had the levees in New Orleans blown just to kill black people-oh, and faked 9/11-that was a CIA plane and explosive charges were set in the buildings.
Why is it so hard to accept things as they are? There are always things that don’t add up, this was a time of terror and shock. There are always those that want there 15 minutes of fame. Maybe this airport employee wanted his.
What would have been the purpose? Just to kill black people?? Jones was a master the same way Hitler was. The German people aren’t normally stupid, yet millions followed this man, believing every word he said. Couldn’t 900 believe Jim Jones?
February 24th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
since the first line you are wrong.. it was 78 not 68!!
February 27th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
it was nov. 18 1978 dumbass…get it right
March 6th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Andre, interesting writing-TY
Mike Spain “but do not comment on my spelling or grammar. It is not my language, you be happy I use it anyway, or you would be crying trying to understand mine…)” HAHAHA–go get ‘um mike!!
Rudolph–you got me laughing!! “wow, that made no sense. thanks for playing though.
you do read these entries before you send another self-serving response right?
what is ‘quilified’ anyway? some foreign word that means ‘whatever i say is right because america bashing is in right now’
way to go champ! you da man!” I LOVE IT!!
My thanks be to all of you for a very entertaining evening!! Andre, hang in there-what you shared is well thought out and certainly believable and I think it would be interesting to pursue further info on it:)
March 6th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Tin Hat-
I think you should go get a cup of hot chocolate, drink it down and GO TO BED–you aren’t in a very nice mood and I find it distasteful that you show such a bad attitude toward Andre in front of all of us here. If you think that makes you look “powerful” you’re not yet mature enough to know what powerful REALLY IS:( But I guess SOMEONE has to throw himself out there as the “sacrificial lamb” so we can all get a good chuckle or two.
And take that chip off your shoulder, please.
March 9th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
free car quote…
Excellent post. Keep it up!…
March 14th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
my name is terry wagar I’m e-mailing you because I’m at a loss as to what i can do about a very dangerous murder conspiracy against me and others, for over 2 and a half years I’ve suffered from this conspiracy, it began { as best as i can tell,} when my wife joan wagar started having a affair with a co-worker named eric carlson, there affair started around April of 2005, i had reason to believe they was trying to kill me back then but i wasnt sure at the time, I’m very very sure now! there is a very interesting fact about eric that joan tried to hide from me and my daughters, he is almost identical in appearance to me! my wife nicknamed him doubleclick, when i learned of my wifes affair i also learned of that nickname and asked joan “why do you call him doubleclick ” she said ” oh thats what everyone calls him at work,” ever since my wife joan insisted her affair was over, it never ended, year and a half all kinds of odd things was happening i started getting very sick from time to time, i suspected she was poisoning me but was not sure at the time, i am now! in early 2006 around Feb or mar i went to the hospital asking to be tested because my wife was talking in her sleep saying she was poisoning me, i went to OHSU and signed in, they informed me that its unlikely that they will find anything but they took my vitals and i waited in the lobby, i waited 4 and a half hours and they never called me back to be checked, and no officers came to question me about my concerns. so i went home, i could tell no one there cared. this is just too long to explain so i will try to get to the point, on march 26th of 2007 at 5;55 am i put a audio recorder in joans purse because i heard my wife whispering to someone in her bedroom, { i slept on the couch, our marriage was falling apart.} i heard what sounded like a guy whispering back, so i put my recorder in her purse expecting to finally catch joan in the act and laid down pretending to still be asleep, ten minutes later my wife left for work, what i caught on there was a lot more than i expected, i caught a murder conspiracy! i didn’t know it right away because the audio i got is like 17 hours long, when i heard on it she was with eric two days later i left her and moved in with my oldest daughter shawna, i spent the next week and a half on and off trying to listen to this audio, it didn’t take long to figure out i was being framed for something by my wife and her lover, and they had help! lots of help, i learned i was under INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI and these INVESTIGATORS were good friends with joan and eric and they all met up at our apartment that morning in joans bedroom, they climbed in through joans window, i learned they were there to frame me as a pedophile, eric was posing for pictures in kayles bedroom,{ our youngest daughter,} while the INVESTIGATOR named ERICA { last name unknown to me.} was taking pictures of him while kayle slept, after words eric climbed out joans window and waited for her in her car, and a john ray climbed in and helped joan put something on our computer and then he left the way he came, joan finished getting ready for work and picked up her purse and left for work, once outside joan was talking to these INVESTIGATORS and discussing what they was going to do next, joan and eric on the ride to work was discussing what they was going to say to other employees when they get there, joan mentioned to eric {you woke her up} referring to kayle, and then they discussed breaking into shawnas apartment with ERICA, after lots of listening to that audio i learned joan eric and erica planed to rape shawna and murder her and then frame me for this! they planed to use a signed check of mine to purchase a gun in my name, remember eric looks almost like me in appearance, eric was going to use my ID and one of my checks to purchase a gun, joan was instructed to collect my sperm, eric was going to rape and murder shawna, erica was going to plant my sperm on shawnas body along with other false evidence, joan and eric met up at walmart along with vickie {joans sister} and the investigators and was waiting at the front door for someone to let them in, other employees showed up and the investigators pretended to have caught me in the act, [ referring to eric in kayles room,} and saying they got me on fotogenic, once inside the investigators proceed to put on a phony show of investigating while in the presence of walmart employees while joan and eric and vickie are trashing my name to there fellow employees turning everyone there against me, joan was even addmeting eric has been impersonating me for other crimes, after hours and hours of the investigators claiming in walmart employees presence that i was doing wrong things and joan and eric telling countless lies about me the investigators gave permission to all of them to pedifie me, joan started printing out flyers about me at walmart,{ unknown to me whether they used them or not.} i learned they had me under a illegal video survealence the hole apartment had hidden cameras and the investigators asked there supervisor to take 6;30 off of joan because john ray broke in there, when i left joan and moved in to my daughters apartment about 3 or 4 days later the FBI took over the apartment above shawna and they proceeded to spread rumors in shawnas neiborhood, and was spying on us as well with hidden cameras, they didn’t know at that time that i knew they were up there, the ceiling in shawnas apartment has no insulation so i could hear them up there talking about editing my audio and discussing ways of killing me, i knew because they are members of authorities i couldn’t get help calling 911, not to mention i was very worried for my family’s safety i was afraid to tell shawna about this at this time for her own safety so i just continued to listen to the audio trying to learn as much about this as i could but for my own safety i pretended to not understand it well, about a week and a half after i left joan on April 7th donna { joans mother who also lives at shawnas apartment complex, } asked shawna if i could go to her apartment to fix her computer she said it wouldn’t work on the Internet, i didn’t want to but shawna insisted so i went over to Donna with shawna and tried to fix her computer, donna offered me a cup of coffee and i accepted, she brought me a cup of coffee and what looked like a mayonaze lid filled with sugar, i put 2 or 3 spoonfuls in my coffee and was sipping while working on her computer, finally i told donna i cant fix it and that maybe she should get a new computer, i drank up my coffee and me and shawna left to go back to shawnas apartment which isn’t far away, by the time i got to the stairs i started not feeling well, once inside i really started feeling very sick and needed to lie down, fifteen minutes later my head felt like there was acid eating away at me from the inside, not thinking clearly i called Joanne asking if she could take me to the hospital, during the drive there joan was looking at her rear view mirror a whole hell of a lot, which gave me the suspicion we were being followed, keep in mind neither joan nor those investigators knew yet that i knew about them, once at the hospital i was so fucked up and hurting in my head that i needed a wheelchair, once i was admitted and taken back to a emergency room i waited and waited and no doctor ever came and examed me, one person came in acting like a doctor but never examed me, he only wanted to put his finger in my ass supposed for a colon test of some sort, but he never asked me what was wrong, never examed my eyes or mouth or ears, never took my vitals, never took a urine sample, i was holding my head in severe pain and all he wanted was to put his finger in my ass, once done he left, a half hour later a male nurse brought me a bottle of something to drink saying i need to drink the whole bottle and then i was going to some room to have a kind of ex ray of some sort, never once did a doctor examine me nor did a doctor come in to explain what was going on, after i drank the bottle the nurse took me to a room for this ex ray then brought me back to my room, about a hour later a doctor came and explained that the only thing they could find wrong was there was a little bleeding in my colon and he recommended i follow up with a colanoscopie, needless to say i was totally shocked at his blatant attempt to ignore the fact that NOBODY EXAMED ME!!! i knew at this time that those investigators had somehow interfered with my medical treatment and done something to prevent a doctor from examine me! i went back to shawnas apartment still in pain in my head, it felt like acid burning in there, and to this day i am still in pain in my head over this, about a week after this i stopped pretending to know nothing about this crap with joan and the investigators and looked up at the ceiling where they were and called them a bunch of criminals and murderers and that i was completely discuss ted with them, shawna was home at this time but didn’t understand why i did that, an hour later shawna left for work and after that all hell broke loose up stairs, a whole lot of people in suits was going up there and there was some yelling and they seemed very angry, a lot of activity going on for the rest of that day in that apartment above shawnas place, at around 8 or 9 that nite several people went up there talking very loudly acting like they were looking at something and said very loudly { yep thats a pedophile alright.} and then him and a few others from that apartment ran out of there yelling at the top of there lungs through out the hole neaborhood calling me a pedophile, from this point on they was pedifieing me openly in shawnas neaborhood, just flat out calling me a pedophile to others in that neaborhood, this hole time i spent most of my time on the floor in pain from donna poisoning me, i flat out knew i could get no help calling 911 since these were people in authority doing this to me, they stopped doing this when shawna was around they didn’t want her to know about it, i told shawna about this but she didn’t believe me because she never witnessed any of it and no one at work mentioned this to her, she believed donna poisoned me but she never understood any of the other stuff, the investigators were quite until shawna left for work and was loud when she left, they would say things like { were going to FUCK you over now you son of a bitch!} i remained in the apartment for about a week after donna poisoned me unable to walk much because of the pain, around this time eric showed up downstairs talking very loudly up at the investigators, { the investigators were on the third floor on the patio and eric was on the ground talking up at them, shawnas app is in between them} and eric was loudly calling me a pedophile and giving my description to others who were out there trying to piss me off, i didn’t go out to confront him because i knew they wanted to shoot me, before he left he yelled up at the investigators telling them to make sure i drink my coffee, keep in mind they weren’t hiding any of there murder attempts from me, after all eric and joan had permission from the authorities to murder me so they just don’t give a shit, i have reason to believe the authorities pressed charges against me and gave my disscription on tv because where ever i go people seem to recognize me, people in shawnas old neaborhood would point over at me and say “there’s the guy they pedified.” ever since i have been under attack behind my back and in front of my face, i learned from that audio that they pedified me in prison so if i get arrested for anything i will likely be murdered in prison, after they poisoned me at some point they broke into shawnas app and replaced my audio with a differant version hoping i would think its the original, i didn’t fall for that,there version is nothing but a death threat against me and shawna and there demonstrating how they plan to frame my hole family and give them the blame for me being poisoned and pedofied, and at the end of it there flat out frameing me as a pedophile using my voice and kayles, although they made the mistake of admitting somewhere in the middle of the audio that there using kayles voice, on there replacement audio they threatened to pedofie shawna if i say something about this, well they already did that, what it amounts to is they tried to kill me and shawna, i caught them in the act , and then they threatened to kill us if i talk about it and then they tried to kill us again, so it does me no good to heed there threats, as far as I’m concerned they murdered me already and there in the process of murdering shawna right now, there have been too many attempts to tell them all on this, let me suffice it to say the other nite joan and a couple of her friends came here to murder me and that plan failed, but there not scared about it because they have some people in authority covering there asses, i write this on November 13th 2007 and at this very moment this apartment is under a illegal video survielence by the FBI, and they allow others over the Internet to spy on us and make fun of us, chances are there going to murder me for sending this because they made it clear there going to cover there asses, but thats why i saved the best for last.
p.s. the address where this ocured is 8800 se causey loop n-205 clackamas OR 97086, the whole neaberhood there has heard of this and the authorities used a warrant to kick out the tenants above shawnas apartment. in 2005 my wife joan wagar was poisoning me, and i was a regular blood donor at the time, when i discovered this i went to the OHSU emergency hospital to get checked and to report this, but no one cared. police are notified and they dont care, there covering this up by ignoring this.
March 29th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
information…
resources…
April 8th, 2008 at 3:40 am
As a teenager I remember the chilling images of the vat of cyanide and the bloated bodies. This is the first I’ve ever heard of a conspiracy theory. I don’t know what to make of the WHOLE truth.
I’ll tell you this: it made me SICK to watch Michael Moore’s SICKO and listen to president Nixon talk about the profits that can be made by limiting healthcare coverage, THEN watching him address the nation as if all he has on his mind is “concern for every American.” It was shocking. If there wasn’t actual audio, it might well have been considered a “conspiracy theory.” Nixon liked the idea of rigged healthcare, now we’re paying a SERIOUS price!
More and more I’m getting soooo disgusted with the United States. There’s so much going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. Politicians are ridiculous and GREEDY, although I have a new respect for Al Gore after watching “An Inconvienient Truth.”
May 17th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Serious Magic Ultra 2…
An interesting post by a bloger made me……
November 18th, 2008 at 7:09 am
This is insanity. Why does it seem that every time any tragedy occurs anywhere in the world there are always plenty of conspiracy theory nuts to cry it’s a US Government and / or CIA inside job? Why can’t you nuts believe that there are just plain evil people in the world and stop blaming some shadow government for everything?
I say, get on your meds and relax. I really don’t think Big Brother has the time or energy to watch you like you think they are.
January 17th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
SOS! My auto was broken on ave. Must I call to repairs or 191?
January 18th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
wondeful think))
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:59 am
such a true story..
February 26th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Your article was very informative and had lots of interesting information.But I think you forgot some facts here and there.For one thing it happened in 1978 not 68.Plus my family is are native to Guyana.There were 13 yrs old when it happened.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:30 am
I listened to the death tape and Jim Jones as well as all the Jonestown members who spoke on the tape, except the lady who attempted to persuade Jim to relocate everyone to Russia sounded drugged up. If you people read the story correctly it said in 1968 Jim Jones established his church in San Francisco. Let me ask you all a question: Where did Jim get all the drugs and poision? Apparently Jim had been a junkie for years, and was certainly not a man of God! I do believe that the CIA was involved, and that something was covered up. It may not have happened exactly like the writer explained, but let me tell you, Jim did not organize this all by himself.